High Voltage Battery Recall EXPANDED - ARB6 & ARB7

[Tooney]

I asked my service advisor here in France, and he had never heard about these recalls at all.
’I am surprised how Porsche handle all of this. They do not seem to understand that in the Internet age news travel around the world in microseconds. Not by pigeon post.

I also agree with someone who said that US is much more for litigation and Porsche are trying to avoid this as much as possible.

BTW I still have not even been contacted about the brake recall!

I believe it is because the US has laws and regulations that require auto manufacturers to conduct and report recalls (which I believe many other countries have), report/share all "manufacturer's communications" such as TSBs), all of which our NHTSA publishes on its website.

My guess is most Porsche service departments in US are not aware of recalls until they are formally notified by Porsche, which is usually days after the recall info is published on NHTSA website. The press reports recall information after it reaches NHTSA website.

Dealers are not notified by Porsche about ARB6/ARB7 recalls until 5 days from now:

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[feye]

What other choice do we have? The resale is terrible.

I agree, but then I was at the Porsche Dealership today:

Nice with really good tech, but not the car I want. Any other EV from Porsche?

 

[SteveDC]

You are way too efficient and logical thinking. One would say even qualified as an engineer.

Porsche would never hire you. They'd rather hire one more designer and 3 more marketing people to "create" a new color and then sell it.

But no, really. I have a feeling that the youngest engineer at Porsche is around 60, and still uses a wall phone. I don't think they are yet aware of how the world functions now, how other modern car companies handle such things, and how their competition in the EV market handles such things. And they don't seem in a hurry to hire people to modernize their 80 year old car pipeline.

They also seem to intentionally ignore the competition, and learn 0 lessons from them. "Don't look at them, so they won't exist" mentality. They could have easily learned some many things just by looking at Tesla's failure, and how they fixed it (charger failure, car under body issues, battery issues, software issues, recalls, OTA, etc), and implementing those fixes before the failures happen at Porsche, but they decided to simply pretend no other EV makers exist.

Porsche right now operates like a old Pharmaceutical company, refusing to modernize because "it has worked for 100 years, therefore it must be good"; and do patchwork on top of patchwork on top of patchwork instead of fixing things at the root of the issue.

Think Leica or Kodak. “Digital is a fad” like talking pictures. Film is slowly coming back, though.

 

[Fantasmos]

People tend to forget all the issues ICE cars have had in their early years. Nothing we are seeing with this recalls comes even closer to the crap automakers have done through the years. I am sure these batteries are 99% ok and a software update will fix them. It will be just another hassle…




GM - Ignition Scandal: A known defect by GM that was hid for over a decade resulted in 124 deaths. 30 million cars were eventually recalled. Ultimately GM decided it was cheaper to pay off death victims than recall every vehicle


VW - Emissions Scandal: VW promoted its "clean diesel" engines which cheated emission tests by being "clean" only during tests, but in the real world it switched modes completely.

BMW was also complicit in this. However "Daimler avoided a fine that would have totaled €727 million because it blew the whistle on the plot"

Toyota - Accelerator Gate: Toyota paid $1.2B in fines because of a stuck gas pedal that affected 10 million cars worldwide. At least in this case someone was jailed..a man who killed three people because of the stuck gas pedal.

Ford - The exploding Pinto. Ford was fined $125M but was reduced to $3.5M in damages even though the court found they knowingly endangered lives.

 

[lcarron]

People tend to forget all the issues ICE cars have had in their early years. Nothing we are seeing with this recalls comes even closer to the crap automakers have done through the years. I am sure these batteries are 99% ok and a software update will fix them. It will be just another hassle…




GM - Ignition Scandal: A known defect by GM that was hid for over a decade resulted in 124 deaths. 30 million cars were eventually recalled. Ultimately GM decided it was cheaper to pay off death victims than recall every vehicle


VW - Emissions Scandal: VW promoted its "clean diesel" engines which cheated emission tests by being "clean" only during tests, but in the real world it switched modes completely.

BMW was also complicit in this. However "Daimler avoided a fine that would have totaled €727 million because it blew the whistle on the plot"

Toyota - Accelerator Gate: Toyota paid $1.2B in fines because of a stuck gas pedal that affected 10 million cars worldwide. At least in this case someone was jailed..a man who killed three people because of the stuck gas pedal.

Ford - The exploding Pinto. Ford was fined $125M but was reduced to $3.5M in damages even though the court found they knowingly endangered lives.

Tesla had a big number of recalls as well. Too bad that Porsche did not implement a proper Over The Air update. They should be able to update the battery software remotely as they did it not a long time ago. Software can fix a lot of things.
Then do not worry too much about this potential issue. It is too much noise for nothing. Enjoy your car or get rid of it if you are that worry.

 

[Jonathan S.]

People tend to forget all the issues ICE cars have had in their early years. Nothing we are seeing with this recalls comes even closer to the crap automakers have done through the years. I am sure these batteries are 99% ok and a software update will fix them. It will be just another hassle…




GM - Ignition Scandal: A known defect by GM that was hid for over a decade resulted in 124 deaths. 30 million cars were eventually recalled. Ultimately GM decided it was cheaper to pay off death victims than recall every vehicle


VW - Emissions Scandal: VW promoted its "clean diesel" engines which cheated emission tests by being "clean" only during tests, but in the real world it switched modes completely.

BMW was also complicit in this. However "Daimler avoided a fine that would have totaled €727 million because it blew the whistle on the plot"

Toyota - Accelerator Gate: Toyota paid $1.2B in fines because of a stuck gas pedal that affected 10 million cars worldwide. At least in this case someone was jailed..a man who killed three people because of the stuck gas pedal.

Ford - The exploding Pinto. Ford was fined $125M but was reduced to $3.5M in damages even though the court found they knowingly endangered lives.

Pinto was another era for automotive excellence (or lack thereof).

VAG emissions cheating affected the environment, not owners.

Toyota was just Audi 5000 redux, i.e., claim that car is accelerating so uncontrollably that flooring the brake pedal doesn’t slow down the car at all. (My wife had an uncle who barely survived doing this in his Volvo. The entire family was quite credulous of his account. Only years later after he had died of natural causes did I explain this to them…)

 

[Fantasmos]

Tesla had a big number of recalls as well. Too bad that Porsche did not implement a proper Over The Air update. They should be able to update the battery software remotely as they did it not a long time ago. Software can fix a lot of things.
Then do not worry too much about this potential issue. It is too much noise for nothing. Enjoy your car or get rid of it if you are that worry.

I have a friend who is one of the lead engineers in one of the tech suppliers of Porsche and we had lunch yesterday and ofc talked about this. He said that they are working on it for the *next* Cayenne and OTA will be working properly there. I guess that’s the 2028-9 model. I would never buy a tesla until that dork is ceo but they have the luxury not to carry a lot of legacy tech, contracts and…people

 

[whitex]

Toyota was just Audi 5000 redux, i.e., claim that car is accelerating so uncontrollably that flooring the brake pedal doesn’t slow down the car at all. (My wife had an uncle who barely survived doing this in his Volvo. The entire family was quite credulous of his account. Only years later after he had died of natural causes did I explain this to them…)

The actual cause was never proven in court on that one. What was proven is that Toyota did not do enough to design for random failure mitigations. A random failures are things which cannot just be rigorously tested in a lab or even in production, because they are so rare. A common example is a bit flip in computer memory due to cosmic radiation. Such a bit flip may occur once every billion hours of driving, so unlikely to ever occur in manufacturer testing, but with millions of cars on the roads, it will of course happen. Proper safety design process (such as ISO26262) mandates proper mitigations for these kinds of failures, i.e. when it does happen, it should not have fatal outcomes. Had Toyota followed such a process, the unintended accelerations would likely have not happened, but even if they did, Toyota would not be found liable since they could show they did take reasonable steps to try to mitigate such failures.

 

[Ronglos]

I have a friend who is one of the lead engineers in one of the tech suppliers of Porsche and we had lunch yesterday and ofc talked about this. He said that they are working on it for the *next* Cayenne and OTA will be working properly there. I guess that’s the 2028-9 model. I would never buy a tesla until that dork is ceo but they have the luxury not to carry a lot of legacy tech, contracts and…people

Thanks for enlightening us about Elon. Anything else we need to know while I’m watching history being made by Space X.

 

[Fantasmos]

To each their own

 

[Jonathan S.]

Thanks for enlightening us about Elon. Anything else we need to know while I’m watching history being made by Space X.

The history of what exactly?

 

[Jonathan S.]

The actual cause was never proven in court on that one. What was proven is that Toyota did not do enough to design for random failure mitigations. A random failures are things which cannot just be rigorously tested in a lab or even in production, because they are so rare. A common example is a bit flip in computer memory due to cosmic radiation. Such a bit flip may occur once every billion hours of driving, so unlikely to ever occur in manufacturer testing, but with millions of cars on the roads, it will of course happen. Proper safety design process (such as ISO26262) mandates proper mitigations for these kinds of failures, i.e. when it does happen, it should not have fatal outcomes. Had Toyota followed such a process, the unintended accelerations would likely have not happened, but even if they did, Toyota would not be found liable since they could show they did take reasonable steps to try to mitigate such failures.

Okay, that is bad on Toyota’s part.
But the fatal outcomes never would have occurred had the drivers slammed on the brakes (instead of doing nothing, or slamming on the accelerator).

 

[whitex]

Okay, that is bad on Toyota’s part.But the fatal outcomes never would have occurred had the drivers slammed on the brakes (instead of doing nothing, or slamming on the accelerator).

I don't think that's true. There was at least one fatal incident (1 of 2 occupants died) where the car left heavy tire marks on the pavement as the driver was slamming on the brakes (confirmed by the surviving occupant, I don't remember if it was the driver or passenger). I am not 100% certain but I think it was a hybrid Toyota. This is the kind of thing which proper safety process should catch, and appropriate mitigations, such making sure braking always takes precedence over accelerator, should flow from the relevant FMEA (Failure Modes and Effect Analysis).

 

[Uknown]

I just saw somewhere the GM is killing off the ultiam brand, and shopping for a non pouch option. Seems their new battery executive came from Tesla.

I wonder if there is any safe pouch design or if they are all flawed.

 

[DerekS]

VAG emissions cheating affected the environment, not owners.

It certainly affected owners indirectly.

The 2014 Targa 4S I traded on my first Taycan had a "stop sale" because of emissions cheating in the Sports Plus mode. I was lowballed on the trade for this reason, as they were taking in a car they couldn't yet sell.

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