Baseline for HV Battery SoH Performance

[SergeyIndy]

Just taken delivery of a new GTS. UK (cool zone).

took measurements in the dealership:

mileage: 10 (!)
Soc: 51%
Soh: 99.82%

No charges performed at all.

I think you are now only the 2nd person after me who measured and reported your SoH to this thread on delivery. If you could now measure at 500 mile intervals to see if it aligns with mine, would be very helpful. My trend is a 5% steep drop after first 1,000 miles and then at 1,500 miles it leveled to only drop less than 0.5%. I will continue measuring and reporting at 500 mile increments to see if it starts dropping at significant (to me) 1%+ rate at each interval.

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[bn8959]

I think you are now only the 2nd person after me who measured and reported your SoH to this thread on delivery. If you could now measure at 500 mile intervals to see if it aligns with mine, would be very helpful. My trend is a 5% steep drop after first 1,000 miles and then at 1,500 miles it leveled to only drop less than 0.5%. I will continue measuring and reporting at 500 mile increments to see if it starts dropping at significant (to me) 1%+ rate at each interval.

Sure, will do! I dont do many miles - although I suspect I might be for the next few weeks!

 

[bn8959]

Just taken delivery of a new GTS. UK (cool zone).

took measurements in the dealership:

mileage: 10 (!)
Soc: 51%
Soh: 99.82%

No charges performed at all.

So I have done one L2 (7.2Kw) charge, 40% to 95% at 36 miles on the clock, one DCFC at 120 miles 55% to 83%. Now sat with 25% SoC and 242 miles on the clock. SoH is reading 98.93% now.
Ill charge to 80% overnight and see what the SoH says then.

 

[tchavei]

So I have done one L2 (7.2Kw) charge, 40% to 95% at 36 miles on the clock, one DCFC at 120 miles 55% to 83%. Now sat with 25% SoC and 242 miles on the clock. SoH is reading 98.93% now.
Ill charge to 80% overnight and see what the SoH says then.

You'll be pretty disappointed during the next few weeks / months until the SoH starts to stabilise. Been there, done that.

There was a time, at the beginning, where I lost some % after each charge. I considered stopping to charge altogether

Actually, last week when I hit 10k km on my odometer, it was the first time ever I charged from 15% to 95% without any change in SoH (remained at 92.33%)

Based on what I've seen on this thread, I'm convinced ambient temperature is the true battery killer. Southern Portugal is warm per se but this last summer was way above average. I blame global warming.

On one occasion, I charged at a ionity station, ambient temperature was above 42C, battery was almost hitting 50C and despite being in sport plus mode (to force the fans to cool the battery during charging) it managed to put the car in turtle mode (turtle icon appeared on the dash while charging). It vanished as soon as I unplugged but still... Lithium seems to like cooler climates much more.

 

[Hirschaj]

Latest updated readings for you...

Current SoH - 95.12%
Current Mileage - 10281
0 new DCFC sessions since last update
0 charges to 100% since last update
20-85% is my typical SoC at any given time

I'm so happy that the intense, triple digit heat has subsided. One thing to note about my setup, I don't have a climate controlled garage but I did install vents in my 2 garage doors and a vent fan in my garage ceiling that runs all the time when it's hot. It's still hot in my garage but the attic fan and garage door vents help to keep air moving.

Cell voltage distribution looks good...

@ciaranob updated readings for you...

Current SoH - 95.00%
Current Mileage - 11,487
0 new DCFC sessions since last update
1 charge to 100% since last update
20-85% is my typical SoC at any given time

Also, I’m letting recurrentauto.com track my charging and range stats. Will post those in a minute I posted those screenshots below as some additional data that may or may not be interesting.

 

[tchavei]

Looks great. Unfortunately only available in the USA.

Tried adding myself to the international waiting list but they don't let you chose Porsche as Manufacturer. Had to add as Audi.

 

[Dr Bob]

1) Delivery Soh - suspect very few if any actually have this?
2) Current SoH
3) Current mileage
4) kWh DC charging (assume remainder at home or work/destination EVSE) - see #3 below on how to obtain.
5) Build date (or just MY if you're not sure)

@ciaranob,
Here is the data on the used Tayan Turbo I have recently bought.

1) Not available
2) 92.2%
3) 8,341
4) not available before 8,200 miles. None since.
5) Sept 21 (MY22)

Bought from a Porsche dealer on the 55° N so likely cool/cold climate (and now we are 150mile north of there so in cold climate now) - but dont get fooled by that. New York state is far hotter in the summer and far colder in the winter than the UK - and up where we are we rarely see temps over 85°F or below 20°F so few extremes.

Very interested in reading all the info in this thread (although I only read the first 3-4 pages and the last 3-4!). You are obviously focussing heavily on charging in hot climates as a source of battery degradation but I wonder if really cold weather also has an impact - but there are few cars in your data set. My day job is tech director of a company involved with Li battery recycling and turning the Li (and other recovered metals ie Nickel, Manganese and Cobalt) recovered into new oxides and forming new cathode materials, so I am familiar with the battery chemistry. LiFePO4's (and other Li chemistries) dont like being charged at below freezing so even low power regen would be a problem. My old Tesla M3 seemed to back off regen completly when the battery was cold (below zero after a cold night) but no idea how this is handled in the Taycan. I hope the BMS is good enough to avoid issues but your type of data would confirm if there are any issues.

I'll try and keep a track of SoH as the mileage builds.

 

[Tooney]

Also, I’m letting recurrentauto.com track my charging and range stats. Will post those in a minute I posted those screenshots below as some additional data that may or may not be interesting.

Interesting. Since recurrent does not show Porsche eligible, I did not know they were doing Taycans.

 

[Hirschaj]

Interesting. Since recurrent does not show Porsche eligible, I did not know they were doing Taycans.

They definitely support the Taycan as you can see by the charts I posted.

 

[Scandinavian]

So here is my update after the battery repair.Two new modules fitted and a new HV Battery control unit. BTW I strongly question the data from the car to Car Scanner!! But this is what is shown!

Car is at 55,420 km now when I drove it home from my local Porsche centre.

SoH. 99.82%

And all cells are equally balanced!

Range at 100% calculates to over 420 km’s!!

Interesting from CarScanner would be that the total battery capacity now woul be close to 87 kWh!
68.9 kWh divided by 78.8 % SoC. = 87.4 kWh???

I just can not believe any of this!

Interesting though is that with a trial of Tronity app, I could see that they estimated my consumption to be 38 kWh/100 km on a trip that the POrsche app reported 19.x kWh/100 km. I think Tronity estimates the battery % consumed of the available capacity, while Porsche reports what the car has consumed. Quite easy to see when the battery trouble started to show now.

@ciaranob I have no idea on what to make of this data in your graphs??

 

[ciaranob]

So here is my update after the battery repair.Two new modules fitted and a new HV Battery control unit. BTW I strongly question the data from the car to Car Scanner!! But this is what is shown!

Car is at 55,420 km now when I drove it home from my local Porsche centre.

SoH. 99.82%

And all cells are equally balanced!

Range at 100% calculates to over 420 km’s!!

Interesting from CarScanner would be that the total battery capacity now woul be close to 87 kWh!
68.9 kWh divided by 78.8 % SoC. = 87.4 kWh???

I just can not believe any of this!

Interesting though is that with a trial of Tronity app, I could see that they estimated my consumption to be 38 kWh/100 km on a trip that the POrsche app reported 19.x kWh/100 km. I think Tronity estimates the battery % consumed of the available capacity, while Porsche reports what the car has consumed. Quite easy to see when the battery trouble started to show now.

@ciaranob I have no idea on what to make of this data in your graphs??

Wow - amazing - I think!!

So first up, as noted in Post #1 in the thread, there is a solid body of evidence to support the actual usable KWh as 86.7 and not the 83.4 advertised by Porsche. This is exactly what my data support too.

So the value output for your 'rebuild' by CarScanner as 87 kWh usable actually seems to be spot on BUT thats for a brand new battery with essentially zero degradation and yours is reporting 99.82 Soh - consistent I guess but how does it not see the degradation which had presumably effected the rest (if not most) of the battery?

Did the dealership mention anything in regards their estimate of Soh post repair i.e. did they give you any readout like I received on request for my car from PIWIS that gave current Soh? If not might be worth having them do this for you as no real cost and yes, it is essentially the same as you using your OBDII reader.

Your range at 100% matches my car in it's first year when I had better Soh so not out of bounds either (or were you getting much better prior?).

Could they have done some sort of extreme 're-conditioning' to active some sort of optimal balancing - even so, its hard to believe that they could reset the battery to as new unless this is in reality a bogus software controlled output .... have to think about this more, sorry no useful answer to your question!!

 

[Scandinavian]

Did the dealership mention anything in regards their estimate of Soh post repair i.e. did they give you any readout like I received on request for my car from PIWIS that gave current Soh? If not might be worth having them do this for you as no real cost and yes, it is essentially the same as you using your OBDII reader.
[/QUOTE

No the dealership did not give me any results from the readout. Not sure they checked the SoC, they mostly looked for any fault codes or other messages that could explain the reason for the fault. But nothing was available.

Could they have done some sort of extreme 're-conditioning' to active some sort of optimal balancing - even so, its hard to believe that they could reset the battery to as new unless this is in reality a bogus software controlled output

The battery repair centre explained that they would do a full charge of the battery and also perform a balancing of all cells. Once done they took the car for a drive to check it properly.

I just think that the new HV Battery control unit needs some time after a few drives, to find the correct levels? Since it is new it might take a few drive charge cycles to see the proper charge levels etc?? My speculation.

I will try to drive the car some 500 km in the next weeks and take a new read out.

 

[tchavei]

Ok. Update.

So the app somehow remembers my profile even if fully uninstalled and installed through another profile. I swear this is the first time an app makes my life difficult to pay for it.

Anyway, I had version 1.100 so I downgraded to version 1.97 and the paywall was gone.

So...

10.000 km
92.33% SoH

Individual cell voltage amplitude seems quite fine though. Oh well...

Update

11172Km
SoH increased to 92.58%

No idea why. Cooler weather? Didn't do anything different in the last 1k km. I'm not complaining

Cheers

 

[Scandinavian]

Could they have done some sort of extreme 're-conditioning' to active some sort of optimal balancing - even so, its hard to believe that they could reset the battery to as new unless this is in reality a bogus software controlled output .... have to think about this more, sorry no useful answer to your question!!

Guess all systems have been reset to original spec so will likely see a difference after a few hundred or thousands of km’s.

I have noted an interesting difference in the consumption figures in the days prior to the failure
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/consumption-difference-myporsche-app-vs-tronity-app.17550/

So I start to question what really is reported by the car and what it measures??

 

[TurboInCold]

Latest update :
2) 91.31%
3) 30360 miles (48859 km)
4) 1891 kWh

The DC charging incresed a lot in July due two roadtrips from Finland to Belgium and from Finland to Lofoten.

Anyhow the SoH seems to have increased a bit, and it has been about the same for the last 26000 km / 16000 miles.

I drive long distances weekly, usually 280km (175
miles) oneway which I’m able to cover always without charging on road. In destinations I’m able to do AC charging so its only vacation roadtrips which involve DC charging.

I always charge to 100% before leaving to these longer drives, meaning at least twice a week, but since I use the timer in porsche app the car is 100% charged only for 1-2 hours before departure.

So it looks like the 100% for short period of time does not affect the battery SoH. I have even found that SoH is slightly better if can is charged to 85% and stays like that for few days so the cell balancing can do its work and improve the SoH.

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