EU/UK: Ongoing navigation issues

[YJZ]

Back on topic... My Taycan is in for a heater recall today and I mentioned the navigation issue as I dropped the car off... The service chap knew right away about the issue, and also recommended the "workaround" to disable the charge planning.... So either there's some lurkers on the thread, or more detail is finally getting to Porsche dealerships.

I spoke with Porsche GB head office today. He is going to followup to try and get an official statement but I’m not holding my breath.

He said he was going to speak to PAG after discussing with the GB tech team.

I was talking to them as part of an ongoing complaint as my CPO Taycan has been in and out of the dealer for a handful of reasons since I bought it at the end of October.

When I know more I’ll update everyone here.

Sponsored

 

[Bognar67]

Nothing is proven yet, of course (maybe points 1-4 as well). That is why we are here still.

In my case the following procedure solved the problem for couple of hundreds of kms (1st attempt from smart mobility):

• Remove the user from PCM (Porsche Communication Management)
• Set the privacy mode on
• Switch off the ignition and lock the vehicle for 15 minutes
• Unlock the vehicle and deactivate privacy mode
• Re-establish remote access by adding a new user in PCM

The 3885 update did not solve the problem (2nd attempt from smart mobility) and the nav stopped to work after 6-8 min drive.

However yesterday evening I have made a two-finger-restart and since that the nav is working properly up to now after 1 day and ca. 1,5 hours total trip. I drove everywhere with active nav to provoke.

The procedures that helped me (temporarily) are cache clearings.

For how long I am not so optimistic.

UPDATE: Since that (1 month+, 2k km continuous nav use), mine is working 100% properly.

 

[chun]

UPDATE: Since that (1 month+, 2k km continuous nav use), mine is working 100% properly.

I have done same procedure 1-2 days ago, after having PCM replaced and getting the problem. The "fix" worked for less than 100km.

To be honest, at this point, I think a rain dance has about as much % success chance of being a successful workaround as any of the other workaround mentioned in here I've literally had all the workaround work at some point or another, and then not work anymore.

 

[Jasper4S]

I got a call from my PC. Porsche AG finally informed the PC's in the Netherlands about this issue. There will be a software update in the future to fix this issue.

 

[Sace]

As expected mine got the 3885 update when it was in last week. But they had also disabled the charge planner! They did not mention anything but all other settings are as I left them. Seems like they get instructed to disable it. They could at least inform about it. But their service is generally terrible so I'm not surprised.

I also pinged the smartmobility support that had an open ticket on the issue that had no updates for a month. They got back within an hour that the problem is known and they are working on a fix.

 

[smoothound]

Back on topic... My Taycan is in for a heater recall today and I mentioned the navigation issue as I dropped the car off... The service chap knew right away about the issue, and also recommended the "workaround" to disable the charge planning.... So either there's some lurkers on the thread, or more detail is finally getting to Porsche dealerships.

Shame PAG HQ ain't reacting - Their reading of the situation and failure to communicate on it to customers is deplorable! People can accept bad news, but to be ignored, when things are going wrong, is the worst business practice and shows PAG's true and total lack of care for customers.

 

[chun]

Shame PAG HQ ain't reacting - Their reading of the situation and failure to communicate on it to customers is deplorable! People can accept bad news, but to be ignored, when things are going wrong, is the worst business practice and shows PAG's true and total lack of care for customers.

Modus operandi for Porsche since forever.

Sadly, the world has changed, and porsche doesn't seem to see that. They don't seem to understand that these small things is what makes other brands succesful in the EV world.

But maybe that's the new strategy, alienate every customer that cares about their cars being drivable and not garage decorations, to be able to justify moving the prices up towards Ferrari and above.

I am still shocked that no goverment has yet forced a recall for what is a clear danger to participants in traffic, as this disables Innodrive mid-use.
The EU is stuck in 2003 as a whole, no wonder the Chinese are eating them up on innovation. Recent example from China where several people died in EVs due to electric door handles in a 6 month period - which started a 6 months investigation - which resulted in electric door handles being banned. The EU would need 6-9 years instead of 6 months, after lobbying and debates, to take action on a matter like this.


What is actually insane however is that they are not even communicating with their dealerships. They are actively losing money, thousands per car with this issue, with countless service hours priced at 300-600 chf/h; software updates, pcm replacements, tens of diagnostics...

Dealerships have to learn from online communities, other drivers or other dealerships about the cause and workarounds for this issue, because Porsche can't be arsed to send a clearly communicated TSB

 

[chun]

I quickly did the math on how much Porsche spent so far on this issue for my car.

New PCM: 4600chf
Replacement cars at 150 chf/day: 23 days in total, 3450 chf.
Worked service hour at 600chf/h - I can't know for sure the amount of hours, but there's 0 chances the deaerlship didn't charge for as many as they could; so let's say 3 out of the 23 days were actually service hours, so 24h - 14400 chf

That puts the total at around 25k chf. The issue is still not solved.

And there's quite a few of us actually wanting this to be solved, so actively going to services.
It adds up. Say only 300 cars actually went through the same process as me - that's 7.5mil

Ridiculous. Imagine being a manager at porsche capable of saving tens of millions by sending an email to create a TSB on the matter.... but of course, that means acknowledging the issue - the horror, imagine. How do these people keep their jobs.

 

[FredC057]

And on top of it, you don't trust the brand anymore.
Why this problem would not occur again with the J1.2 Taycan or the Cayenne EV?

I'm fed up with them and even if I'm going to loose a lot, I'm going to sell mine and not buying another Porsche for the moment.
Sad as it's a great car to drive... when you can drive it.

 

[Dabz]

To add insult to injury, our Mini EV now has a software fault causing it's PCM to crash every few mins, but in this case it also disables ALL screens including the HuD so you have no speedo, no nothing. Quite mental when driving in pitch black (headlights stay on but you have no clue how fast you're going).
So that's 2 cars with PCM problems and 2 manufacturers who are clueless to the fix.

 

[smoothound]

I spoke with Porsche GB head office today. He is going to followup to try and get an official statement but I’m not holding my breath.

He said he was going to speak to PAG after discussing with the GB tech team.

I was talking to them as part of an ongoing complaint as my CPO Taycan has been in and out of the dealer for a handful of reasons since I bought it at the end of October.

When I know more I’ll update everyone here.

FYI A couple of weeks ago, I sent a email jointly to both SmartM UK and PAG UK, explaining customer anger and deploring the crazy self-harming lack of 'harmonising' customer communication from PAG.

SM-UK warmly welcomed my email and thanked me - but did not offer to do anything .. They just told me about the cancel-charge-planner workaround; and, said people were working on it.

As expected, PAG completely ignored my mail (to-date).

Please can Forumites consider emailing their national Porsche Smart Mobility or equivalent - & copying PAG - and ask for an official communication to customers on this issue - e.g. do they acknowledge this issue exists, do they know the cause, and can they advise what remedy is underway and under what estimated timeframe ... And most importantly, can PAG kindly issue an official communication on this instead of relying on piecemeal unharmonised dialogue with individual customers and OPCs

Cheers

Many thanks...

 

[davidh]

Modus operandi for Porsche since forever.

Sadly, the world has changed, and porsche doesn't seem to see that. They don't seem to understand that these small things is what makes other brands succesful in the EV world.

But maybe that's the new strategy, alienate every customer that cares about their cars being drivable and not garage decorations, to be able to justify moving the prices up towards Ferrari and above.

I am still shocked that no goverment has yet forced a recall for what is a clear danger to participants in traffic, as this disables Innodrive mid-use.
The EU is stuck in 2003 as a whole, no wonder the Chinese are eating them up on innovation. Recent example from China where several people died in EVs due to electric door handles in a 6 month period - which started a 6 months investigation - which resulted in electric door handles being banned. The EU would need 6-9 years instead of 6 months, after lobbying and debates, to take action on a matter like this.


What is actually insane however is that they are not even communicating with their dealerships. They are actively losing money, thousands per car with this issue, with countless service hours priced at 300-600 chf/h; software updates, pcm replacements, tens of diagnostics...

Dealerships have to learn from online communities, other drivers or other dealerships about the cause and workarounds for this issue, because Porsche can't be arsed to send a clearly communicated TSB

Any ADAS systems that use radars or cameras are prone to deactivate in adverse weather conditions eg. snow, heavy rain etc and not considered as a serious safety issue, likewise your innodrive cancelling. In the Taycan handbook I'm sure that there will be statement like "the driver is responsible for safety of the vehicle and occupants at all times".

 

[chun]

Any ADAS systems that use radars or cameras are prone to deactivate in adverse weather conditions eg. snow, heavy rain etc and not considered as a serious safety issue, likewise your innodrive cancelling. In the Taycan handbook I'm sure that there will be statement like "the driver is responsible for safety of the vehicle and occupants at all times".

Wasn’t aware that maps and navigation crashing is considered bad weather. Can you link the porsche manual page where this is communicated?

Or am I supposed to consider a sunny perfect day as bad weather, just because it’s a porsche?

The fact that the driver is responsible won’t save porsche from a forced recall with stop driving notice the moment the first time InnoDrive deactivates and kills a family of 4

What sort of pedantic argument is this. Yes, I know very well not to trust InnoDrive in bad weather. Everyone does. 40 degrees in the south of Italy, clear skies, so not bad weather

What’s next, the driver is responsible for the building burning down because he decided to park underground in a porsche from a brand that can’t be bothered to actually replace defective hardware?

What kind of stupid victim blaming arguments are these?

“You’re responsible for using a feature that you didn’t know can crash in perfect weather and kill your whole family, because porsche can’t be fucking bothered to do any official communication in their disaster of a product” . Great argument Now replace that feature with wheel, or the brakes. Should I also expect those to fail at any given time, and be responsible for any accident if I don’t expect them to fail at any given time? Great joke

 

[tonykara]

Any ADAS systems that use radars or cameras are prone to deactivate in adverse weather conditions eg. snow, heavy rain etc and not considered as a serious safety issue, likewise your innodrive cancelling. In the Taycan handbook I'm sure that there will be statement like "the driver is responsible for safety of the vehicle and occupants at all times".

Tell that to anyone getting into a Waymo car!

 

[davidh]

Wasn’t aware that maps and navigation crashing is considered bad weather. Can you link the porsche manual page where this is communicated?

Or am I supposed to consider a sunny perfect day as bad weather, just because it’s a porsche?

The fact that the driver is responsible won’t save porsche from a forced recall with stop driving notice the moment the first time InnoDrive deactivates and kills a family of 4

What sort of pedantic argument is this. Yes, I know very well not to trust InnoDrive in bad weather. Everyone does. 40 degrees in the south of Italy, clear skies, so not bad weather

What’s next, the driver is responsible for the building burning down because he decided to park underground in a porsche from a brand that can’t be bothered to actually replace defective hardware?

What kind of stupid victim blaming arguments are these?

“You’re responsible for using a feature that you didn’t know can crash in perfect weather and kill your whole family, because porsche can’t be fucking bothered to do any official communication in their disaster of a product” . Great argument Now replace that feature with wheel, or the brakes. Should I also expect those to fail at any given time, and be responsible for any accident if I don’t expect them to fail at any given time? Great joke

Wasn’t aware that maps and navigation crashing is considered bad weather. Can you link the porsche manual page where this is communicated?

Or am I supposed to consider a sunny perfect day as bad weather, just because it’s a porsche?

The fact that the driver is responsible won’t save porsche from a forced recall with stop driving notice the moment the first time InnoDrive deactivates and kills a family of 4

What sort of pedantic argument is this. Yes, I know very well not to trust InnoDrive in bad weather. Everyone does. 40 degrees in the south of Italy, clear skies, so not bad weather

What’s next, the driver is responsible for the building burning down because he decided to park underground in a porsche from a brand that can’t be bothered to actually replace defective hardware?

What kind of stupid victim blaming arguments are these?

“You’re responsible for using a feature that you didn’t know can crash in perfect weather and kill your whole family, because porsche can’t be fucking bothered to do any official communication in their disaster of a product” . Great argument Now replace that feature with wheel, or the brakes. Should I also expect those to fail at any given time, and be responsible for any accident if I don’t expect them to fail at any given time? Great joke

Tell that to anyone getting into a Waymo car!

The advantage that Waymo have is they have a plethora of different sensor technologies, so when one sensor is blinded or blocked due to fog, rain or bright lights, then there is another system that acts as a back up. However, in heavy rain and snow conditions none of the sensors will perform correctly. Maybe thats why Wamo started off in L.A.

Sponsored