EU/UK: Ongoing navigation issues

[Kelpie_automotive]

I have the exact same problem and it started when BMS surveillance SW were implemented. This is what I feared would happen. I’ve seen similar issues with computers and phones.

Bottom line, we paid serious money for a car that has the hardware of a 10 year old computer. What’s worse is that even as far back as 10 years ago the hardware would still be mediocre at best.

The specialist at my Porsche center diagnosed the issue as a RAM problem. The problem arises because backend changes and OTA updates alter the API responses. Consequently, more map data, including charging information and traffic hazards, is sent to the PCM, which is now handling a larger volume of data. This overload causes the PCM to crash. To mitigate this, the specialist recommends turning off the Charging Planner to reduce the size of the responses and turning off the satellite view to free up memory.

While these measures provide a temporary solution, they are not a permanent fix. The OTA update for the BMS is too busy managing data, and they either need to revert the changes or update us to a new build of the navigation app.

The fact that Skoda and Audi forums describe the same problem confirms this expectation. The backend is providing excessive data. This also explains why it’s an EU-specific issue. In the EU, there’s likely a vendor for that data that’s sharing too much information. For instance, a charging point supplier that shares too much data (in bytes) can cause VOWA navigation systems to crash.

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[V8Turbo1974]

I have the exact same problem and it started when BMS surveillance SW were implemented. This is what I feared would happen. I’ve seen similar issues with computers and phones.

Bottom line, we paid serious money for a car that has the hardware of a 10 year old computer. What’s worse is that even as far back as 10 years ago the hardware would still be mediocre at best.

And old cars where the engines blew up or bodywork that rusted through, this will be the new obsolescence of modern cars to get new ones and scrap the old ones

 

[ovonrein]

this will be the new obsolescence

Nothing new about it. The infotainment was always the first thing to age. My 1999 BMW had a built-in car phone. That was cool when it rolled off the production line...

the hardware of a 10 year old computer

Well, naturally. How could it be any other way? The art would be to optimize software to respect those limitations. I fail to see why that could not be done. But the problem with modern programming environments is that they promote bloat.

 

[Swiss Danny]

For you first have to ask yourself do we still need a Charge Planner at all? If the answer is yes, then what do we want from that Charge Planner?

Great post! We have all become used to device apps which get weekly updates and major upgrades in UX and functionality. Add in increasing frequency of AI or at least improved predictive logic in our typing, searching etc and the whole PCM experience has become prehistoric. The hardware limitations just exacerbate this further. Did I read somewhere the next generation PCM is going to be re-engineered on an android platform?

 

[Swiss Danny]

And old cars where the engines blew up or bodywork that rusted through, this will be the new obsolescence of modern cars to get new ones and scrap the old ones

LOL a year ago when I moved to from a 2014 991.1 Carrera (model launched 2011) and PCM 3.0, I thought I'd arrived in PCM heaven with my MY24 Taycan.... now not so much. LOL

 

[Brombaer1971]

Guy’s, seriously. For a 3.5 year old car a non functioning satnav is a nono. And don‘t get me started on oems doing software development. For the cars price this is simply not ok.

 

[Jasper4S]

LOL, are we discussing if we need Charging Planner? It is an EV, it is a necessity. On top of that, my car is 2,5 years old. SW should not break after 2 years. Not for this price

 

[ovonrein]

we need Charging Planner? It is an EV, it is a necessity.

It is nice to have. From having criss-crossed your fine country twice in recent weeks, I am happy to say it is no longer essential.

For the cars price this is simply not ok.

That's fair.

 

[Eltibouron]

It is nice to have. From having criss-crossed your fine country twice in recent weeks, I am happy to say it is no longer essential.

That's fair.

There is a big distinction here:
1. If the car allows manual battery preconditionning, the. It's a nice to have
2. Otherwise, it's a requirement since only the charge planner can perform such operations. This is especially true for during colder periods, and cars with high recharge speed

We all know the Taycan lands in the second bucket. Plus, I completely agree that for the price of the car, this is just a disgrace to offer such a disasterous software quality level.

 

[ferdiaz]

Ultimately, each person attributes different value to each feature. This is not a case of one usecase fits all. Absolutely essential for me may be just meh for someone else.

But it goes without saying: this shouldn't be an excuse for Porsche to ignore the problem.

 

[ovonrein]

If the car allows manual battery preconditionning

I don't know. Yes, perhaps at the first stop. Though, as many post here, not preconditioning ain't cost you more than 10 mins. After the first stop, that battery never dropped below 38C (in ambient 0C) as I hammered the car thru Benelux. (I love FastNed.)

 

[Eltibouron]

I don't know. Yes, perhaps at the first stop. Though, as many post here, not preconditioning ain't cost you more than 10 mins. After the first stop, that battery never dropped below 38C (in ambient 0C) as I hammered the car thru Benelux. (I love FastNed.)

You're right, although it might cost you more time when temperatures are around 0C. My car sleeps outside. I did a 700 km trip in December with temperature around -3C. PIRM was completely useless on that trip and did nothing. When I arrived at my first charge stop, the battery was at 17C and I took "only" 160kW at peak. That cost me something like 20 mins on my journey.

Now, this is not the end of the world, but it just illustrates how critical battery conditioning can be. Again, linking this to the charge planner is fine... as long as it work correctly, which is not the case on this premium car!

 

[ovonrein]

and I took "only" 160kW at peak

Lucky you. 10 more than all chargers other than FastNed would give me. It is more often the charger than the car that limits the current. You only really know that it is the car when next to you there is someone else getting more. Wasn't the case on my trip. At Q8 in Aater, there were 20 cars reading the paper while putting up with 50kW. Waste of time. I put in only the kWh I needed to make it to the next ChargePoint a few km down the road.

But that was my original point. There are lots of HPC every few km along the E40.

EDIT: But to your point, I only knew the ChargePoint was up next because my nav told me so

 

[ovonrein]

Did I read somewhere the next generation PCM is going to be re-engineered on an android platform?

Dunno but perhaps a questionable decision in the light of recent geopolitical developments.

 

[Eltibouron]

Lucky you. 10 more than all chargers other than FastNed would give me. It is more often the charger than the car that limits the current. You only really know that it is the car when next to you there is someone else getting more. Wasn't the case on my trip. At Q8 in Aater, there were 20 cars reading the paper while putting up with 50kW. Waste of time. I put in only the kWh I needed to make it to the next ChargePoint a few km down the road.

But that was my original point. There are lots of HPC every few km along the E40.

Yes are indeed lucky to have a very dense and ultra fast charging network on French motorways. Most of the stops do have 300+ kW chargers. When PIRM works correctly, I always get 250+ kW (I always stop below 10%) and it's so amazing then that happens

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